Scheduled Manual FULL Image after Disk Geometry Change

[Froggie]

Don't be too hard on N8, he's a geek in the imaging world and as such, may not have too much tolerance for the simple issues for simple users.  Many users of imaging software just want it to work... they're not interested in digging in on issues that seem to be a bit complicated, albeit difficult to explain.  They just want the software to work, especially if designed to be set'n'forget processes that can be scheduled.  They want the software to tell them when there's a problem and fix it... I wish that was the case out in this world . N8 knows what to do with that type of situation.

My mission has always been to help Hasleo develop the best FREE software disk imaging System possible, and eventually make it available for the general user community at a most affordable rate (FREE...??? ).  All computer users need this type of application available... both geeks and the general user, I'm just here to help 

[Froggie]

We will add a feature we currently call "Smart Backup" in the advanced option page of the backup task. When this feature is enabled:
1. If all partitions on a disk are selected, Hasleo Backup Suite will automatically reselect all partitions upon detecting changes (including modifications to existing partitions or newly created partitions).
2. If only some partitions on a disk are selected, Hasleo Backup Suite will determine whether the modified partition is an alteration of the originally selected partition based on partition's location and the filesystem's serial number. If so, the changed partition will be automatically selected. Otherwise, Hasleo Backup Suite will prompt that the partitions cannot be found.

I think I understand what you are suggesting above and agree with the approach (actually a bit better than a brute force FULL upon change detection <which is acceptable as well>) as long as the changed partitions are re-imaged as FULL partitions (not sure I would feel comfortable doing a DELTA RESTORE following a partition geometry change... maybe just me).  I would also suggest that maybe your "Smart Backup" feature above be the application DEFAULT, allowing users not to have to deal with these issues as they occur.  As long as the image you take can be used for image reconstruction upon recovery.  You can always put a note in the LOG that the event occurred.  If users need to know all the nuances of the imaging operation (errors, etc.), they can always unCHECK the "Smart Backup" option.

[n8chavez]

The issue is, HBS does work. Users have been told multiple times how to negate this current alignment issue. Is it Hasleo's fault people don't want to listen to their advice? No. Are users expecting to create incremental and differential images forever, never again needing to create a full baseline? Apparently. Just recreate the task, and move on with your life.

Froggy, two things...one, when you use phrases like Micro$sloth it makes you lose credibility of the ability to have intelligent conversations. And, B, "too hard on N8"? If only where where at the other forums, where had my avatar.

[Gork]

Fwiw I'm not new to imaging. I've been using different kinds of software for this task since Norton Ghost on MS-DOS. But, there's a decided difference between creating an imaging program to be run manually when you need it and using an imaging program to keep up with unattended backups. Until my PC took a nosedive 4 years back I had imaging software set up to run unattended on a monthly schedule. Day 1: Full; Every Monday: Diff, every other day of the month: Inc. I manually moved the oldest of the last two complete sets to an unattached drive at the beginning of each month, and I kept 6 months worth of backups on that drive. I kept a copy of that unattached drive at a different location as well. (Now I just hobble through on a laptop until Intel comes up with a decent home user desktop CPU for or I give up on them and go AMD.) I kept an eye on things, but didn't want to have to constantly babysit the operation.

My point being, it seems to me Hasleo wants to live up to standards of scheduling unattended imaging backups, and I think it's fair for expect such an imaging program to continue an unattended backup sequence after a hiccup, like a change in drive geometry. I would agree with @n8chavez if the program were designed to only be used to image/clone a drive when you needed to. But it's not. And from Hasleo's reponses in this thread it seems they agree with how I view the situation.

[n8chavez]

I'm not saying that you can't keep the old images. Keep them. Extract data from them if you need to. But don't expect your old tasks to work. Why is this so difficult for everyone to understand? Remake the take and move on with your automated backups. Really, though. Everyone is making this way harder than it has to be (giggitty) for absolutely no reason.

[CDC9762]

Pardon me for losing track of things in this long thread but I think the issue isn't remaking tasks that no longer work but the fact when the backup fails because of the geometry change there may be no notification that any number of backups have failed if the backup runs unattended. A way to allow backups to continue if there are structure changes without user intervention is to create a new Full instead of the incremental or differential which will take into consideration the structure and permit subsequent incremental and differentials to run. Hope I understood this correctly.

[Epictetus]

We will add a feature we currently call "Smart Backup" in the advanced option page of the backup task. When this feature is enabled:
1. If all partitions on a disk are selected, Hasleo Backup Suite will automatically reselect all partitions upon detecting changes (including modifications to existing partitions or newly created partitions).
2. If only some partitions on a disk are selected, Hasleo Backup Suite will determine whether the modified partition is an alteration of the originally selected partition based on partition's location and the filesystem's serial number. If so, the changed partition will be automatically selected. Otherwise, Hasleo Backup Suite will prompt that the partitions cannot be found.

I think I understand what you are suggesting above and agree with the approach (actually a bit better than a brute force FULL upon change detection <which is acceptable as well>) as long as the changed partitions are re-imaged as FULL partitions (not sure I would feel comfortable doing a DELTA RESTORE following a partition geometry change... maybe just me).  I would also suggest that maybe your "Smart Backup" feature above be the application DEFAULT, allowing users not to have to deal with these issues as they occur.  As long as the image you take can be used for image reconstruction upon recovery.  You can always put a note in the LOG that the event occurred.  If users need to know all the nuances of the imaging operation (errors, etc.), they can always unCHECK the "Smart Backup" option.

Wouldn't a brute-force FULL be safer all considered?

[Froggie]

I really don't see the difference.  If they can detect all the geometrically changed partitions, when they do the image, the existing unchanged partitions will be imaged normally and the changed partitions will be fully imaged.  The resultant image will have all the unchanged partitions as well as any additional partitions that may have changed... same effort, a bit more efficient (unchanged partitions imaged only for changes, changed partitions imaged in FULL instead of all in FULL).


Seems safe to me... just a slightly different approach

[Epictetus]

I really don't see the difference.  If they can detect all the geometrically changed partitions, when they do the image, the existing unchanged partitions will be imaged normally and the changed partitions will be fully imaged.  The resultant image will have all the unchanged partitions as well as any additional partitions that may have changed... same effort, a bit more efficient (unchanged partitions imaged only for changes, changed partitions imaged in FULL instead of all in FULL).


Seems safe to me... just a slightly different approach

Yes agreed. A full-on full just seems neater to me is all. As mentioned above in this thread, I only ever do manual Full images and don't schedule, so no issue for me anyway - but clearly of relevance to others here.

[Gork]

don't expect your old tasks to work.  Why is this so difficult for everyone to understand?  Remake the take and move on with your automated backups.

I DO expect my old tasks to work!  I mean, if I set a schedule to run a task which runs a FULL followed by an INC of a drive, but the drive geometry changes in-between, the software should be "smart enough" to run another FULL instead of the INC so that the backup imaging process is not halted and backups continue.  That seems obvious to me.  Basic, even, if the software is designed for unattended schedule imaging backups. As for tracking geometry changes with partitions and performing the same type of calculations?  That's icing on the cake, at least for me.  I only take full drive images when running automated imaging backups.

Pardon me for losing track of things in this long thread but I think the issue isn't remaking tasks that no longer work but the fact when the backup fails because of the geometry change there may be no notification that any number of backups have failed if the backup runs unattended. A way to allow backups to continue if there are structure changes without user intervention is to create a new Full instead of the incremental or differential which will take into consideration the structure and permit subsequent incremental and differentials to run. Hope I understood this correctly.

It sounds to me like you understand, at least as I do.